Music licensing companies come calling for royalties

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Music licensing companies come calling for royalties

Message Board > Found on the web > Music licensing companies come calling for royalties

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_Griphin_
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http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070708/NEWS01/707080343/1006

Six months after raising the curtain on their gourmet coffee shop in the beachside Indian Harbour Place shopping center, Laurie and Jim Hall decided to offer live music on Friday and Saturday nights.

The performers, normally duos, mainly covered songs written and made famous by other musicians. There was no cover charge, no pay for the musicians, no limit to how long patrons could sit on a couch with their coffee, playing chess and enjoying the music.

No problem.

Then a few months later, music industry giant ASCAP started calling and sending letters saying East Coast Coffee & Tea was in violation of copyright laws. The fee to continue the music was $400 a year.
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I dunno if the same could happen here in Victoria (or anywhere in Canada for that matter), but it's worth the read! - Sun, 8 Jul 2007 4:09pm

lonemonk
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There is nothing stopping the industry from attempting to collect on musicians playing cover material no matter where in the world they are doing it. Canada is different ONLY in that we have a blank CD levy which allows us to make copies of bought music, but that system does not open up any other forms of use of the copyrighted material.

Just another step in the massive campaign on the part of record companies to say that music downloads have hurt their industry, and they are recouping the money any way they can. Ever notice that most of the Guitar TAB sites that used to exist are closed down now? Same shit; Any TAB site I was ever on didn't charge people. Where is the profit loss here? There doesn't need to be one.

Never forget that this is completely legal and the music copyright holder HAS every right to do so, no matter how silly it seems.

And I admit, it does reek of *extreme* silliness - Wed, 11 Jul 2007 9:34am Edited: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 9:35am

Mean Mike
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However, if your band is registered with SOCAN and you write down your setlist with song lengths and submit all your gigs online to SOCAN you will get a royalty check eventually for the gig. There does have to be a $6 min cover charge mind you.. (you'd also have to prove that wit a gig poster, ticket stub or advertisement clipping.. )

Thing is in Griphins post the shop wasnt charging cover, so that would exempt any royaltys coming back to the band.. But how does a governing force know that? they dont so it becomes a blanket policy that covers and and all establishments. (as opposed to an honor system that would ultimately get absused..) - Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:02pm

moron
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Hey Mean Mike, that magical cash happens to come from the *promoter* of the event and is only relevant for originals (you do a cover, the original song author gets the loot). If you submit to SOCAN they come a calling to whomever put on the gig for their blood money. So you get paid for playing and then slide in the backdoor again as a nice fuck you to the promoter.

There is nothing cool about this at all, it is just a way for SOCAN troughers to double dip as well as to feed the bureaucratic machine.

[rant]
SOCAN could give a rats ass about who they hassle for money. They have a long history of going after things like sock hops, community events, etc. They also demand money from restaurants for playing CDs (which is why you so often hear shitty radio instead) not to forget record stores for playing CDs, etc. They have been pushing for increases to the blank media levies including wanting rather heavy fees applied against things like iPods and such.

SOCAN is also currently trying to kill off Internet radio in Canada via the tariff scheme they have lobbied for.

http://www.slyck.com/story1503_Slyck_Interviews_the_NCRA

SOCAN is the problem at this point (well them and their buddies the CRIA).
[/rant]

Back on topic, reporting that you played a gig is only cool if the event already pays SOCAN fees. If the situation is anything different you are just going to hurt the promoter and or venue by doing so.

IMHO of course.

Cheers - Wed, 11 Jul 2007 2:53pm Edited: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 2:54pm

_Griphin_
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Wow, I fergot about Socan. Garry Brainless I know recommends the organization. I know it seems humerous to post about what happens south of the border, BUT give it a matter of time and either SOCAN or CANCOM will pull the same shit. I'm sure it's cheaper then what there doing in the states (though little is mentioned about Tariff 22 (cute name) in the article)). Would it shut down bitcasting up here?!? Really hard to say, everyone seems to be in for money anyways. (I never have been ever with VDRP, though I could make a killing if I really wanted to.) - Wed, 11 Jul 2007 4:39pm Edited: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 9:53pm

Mean Mike
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Any real venue has to pay a licence fee no matter what.

And my point of view is that if you are entitled to the money then apply and get it. My gear and jam spot rent and gas and all the other bills associated with making music didnt just fall into my hands 'magically' as you put it, so fork over the dough, if that isnt cool to the promoter, then they should not promote. (or they can charge less than $6 a show ) And Ive yet to hear of a DIY all ages type of promoter actually have Socan come after them for money after the fact. How are they going to even know the real name of the promoter from a ticket stub or poster? They might know the name of someones made-up production company, but if they arent paying licencing fees or taxes in the first place, chances are they arent listed in the yellow pages for Socan reps to call them down at their 'office' and get the money.. what are they gonna do, send their lawyer after some guy named 'Bob' who runs Dirtbag Productions? Ive applied for said payment in the past, for shows put on by friends or acquaintences of mine who run underground DIY production companies, and even though the money has come in, the promoter has never heard a peep from Socan. In most cases, any legal venue has paid some form of an operating licence each year just to have a promoter come in and do a show, and said licence is no business of the promoter. For instance, if a local promoter puts a show in Lucky Bar or Logans, who pays for that licence to have live music? Not the promoter, but the venue. And they will pay it no matter how many bands do or dont apply.

Also, In regards to a bar or nightclub, cafe etc when you walk out of there with your typical $150 pay or whatever, the club has probably sold a couple grand in booze and/or food and pays for their licence each year whether you apply for your Socan cut or not.

But then again you could just be a 'nice guy' and let the evil Socan keep the money you are entitled to.

;) - Fri, 13 Jul 2007 3:54am

lonemonk
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Think about this scenario for a moment:
You are a new Socan member and you write a couple of really bitchin' songs. Make no mistake, It is YOUR (and your company if you have one) responsibility to protect that copyright!!!! In MOST jurisdictions, failure to protect your own copyright means to may loose it. Sony, BMG, or whoever is never going to allow that. Hell will freeze over first. Nobody really cares WHO pays, as long as someone is paying.
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moron had some wicked points, but even playing radio in a restaurant is not entirely acceptable. Radio is for personal enjoyment only, not public 're-broadcast'. Telephone Hold music and PA systems alike are supposed to pay the piper just like any other...
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In a nutshell, if you haven't written the song yourself and/or you have no way to prove it, you owe money to whoever does own it or can prove ownership. This is not Canada vs US here, its everywhere in the world except China
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Griphin: "...though I could make a killing if I really wanted to" You couldn't make a killing on VDRP even if you wanted to. You have no choice but to enjoy the good nature of the friendly Victoria music scene. I'm totally glad you do what you do, but to brag that it could be source of huge income is simply not an accurate or wise thing to say. Additionally, it would not be a good thing for your cause to ever make the attempt.

I feel like a hag for pointing all this out, but I am getting tired of the increasing lack of knowledge that exists around here, especially on a topic like this.
. - Sat, 14 Jul 2007 2:39am Edited: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 4:08am

_Griphin_
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I dunno, you honestly think that I'm gonna keep all the money without paying the bands for the work they did?!? Keep thinking that. So, why is it your still poor even with your studio?!? Don't "experts" make a lot of money?!? Well?!? - Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:37pm Edited: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 1:00pm

ROSS B AY
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Keep it on the real, bro Griph........you do the lord's work. Remember that shit. - Sat, 14 Jul 2007 1:13pm Edited: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 1:13pm

Cool Hand Luke Mister BEAUMONT
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VDRP
Victoria's
Dullest
Retarded
Person

??? - Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:46pm

lonemonk
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I'm far from poor griph, but you're right, it isn't my passions that currently make me any money, it currently all comes from the day-job. You know as well as I how much it costs to support ones' hobbies.

Chill the fuck out anyway. - Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:32am

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