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Operation Clambake presents: What Is Scientology?
| Message Board > Found on the web > Operation Clambake presents: What Is Scientology? |
| _Griphin_ User Info... | http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html In a Nutshell: The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends. - Sun, 25 Jun 2006 1:46am | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | why is it that people hate on scientology? i go by what ed kotch said in the 80's when the gays were all pissed off at the catholic church and disrupting services -- "if you don't like your religion then get another one." no offence griph - Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:31pm Edited: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:33pm | ||
| Mi*coll* User Info... | maybe because scientology is really less of a religion than an elaborate scam involving the use of modern psychological tricks. - Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:55pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... |  Here's 2 great examples why you should be worried about the group: Rudolf Willems, a German steel company owner was a patron of the IAS and OT 3(?). He spent several millions of dollars for Scientology. In 1987 he shot himself when his company was bankrupt. Albert Jaquier was OT 7. He spent about 2,000,000 USD for Scientology. He died in December 1994 after he was broke and several Scientologists refused to pay back their debts. There's also the case of poor Lisa McPherson. On December 5, 1995, Lisa McPherson was dead on arrival at a hospital 45 minutes north of Clearwater Florida. According to the coroner's report, Lisa was underweight, severely dehydrated, and had bruises and bug bites. Lisa's last address was listed by the police as 210 S. Ft. Harrison in Clearwater Florida, which is the Fort Harrison Hotel, a Scientology property. Lisa had been a Scientologist from the age of 18 to her death at age 36. Lisa was put on the Introspection Rundown that Scientology uses to handle those who have had a psychotic break. http://www.lisamcpherson.org/ -=- For more of the story. Now I'm all for someone learning a belief system, but Scientology is the enemy in our cities. And am I concerned whether the local Scientologists are worried about people like me? Naaa.... Also check out: http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm -=- Bare-Faced Messiah The True Story of L. Ron Hubbard. (He was a high ranking member of the OTO till he realized one day he could do a better job, hence Scientology. - Mon, 26 Jun 2006 1:36am Edited: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 1:43am | ||
| Shaggy User Info... | If you're intelligent, scientology isn't an issue. Natural selection comes in many forms. - Mon, 26 Jun 2006 1:51am | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Yes, but there are too many stupid sheep/people that get taken advantage of. - Mon, 26 Jun 2006 3:55pm | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | griph, there are people who get taken advanage in a lot of things. just take a look at the state of punk rock in fernwood. - Mon, 26 Jun 2006 8:40pm Edited: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 8:40pm | ||
| Shaggy User Info... | It's called natural selection Griph. That's how the weak genetics get weeded out. Lack of intelligence isn't something we need more of. The world allready has enough inbred trailer park trash as it is. If you're stupid enough to get shilled out of everything you own by a pseudo religion, you deserve what you get... - Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:25pm | ||
| Mi*coll* User Info... | As though you live in the "natural world", Shaggy. Society and the Government do tons of stuff to protect people, whether you are conscious of it or not. Plus your ideas about eugenics are completely half-baked (not to mention bizarrely outdated): there's no "weeding out" going on here from a biological perspective, just a bunch of people getting conned. Scientology is unequivocally a scam and we should ban it like we ban fake charities. - Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:14am | ||
| kristian User Info... | wow shaggy please calm down. you better not breed and pass your lack of intelligence down through genetics. - Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:23am | ||
| Kris North User Info... | scientology is just odd. pyramid schemes suck you in, and thats what scientology is. i know some very intelligent people who have been sucked in by pyramid schemes. its not much different from very intelligent people paying for porn on the internet with their credit cards. or trusting a man they've never met before through a chatroom. and last but not least, lordpatch your comparison in the second post is stupid and sort of disturbing. first of all referencing that situation in a positive way is rather shocking to me, and secondly non of us are scientologists so why is that even relevant? i don't like to be angry on the internet but this post pissed me off with arrogance. - Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:29am | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Mmmmmmm.... porno. - Sat, 1 Jul 2006 5:26pm | ||
| kristian User Info... | i was high when i wrote that. i don't think it makes sense and i don't actually care that much about anything. - Sun, 2 Jul 2006 12:21am | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | yep http://youtube.com/watch?v=3UZJWtXLowY&search=burroughs "...Souls rotten from their orgasm drugs, flesh shuddering from their nova ovens, prisoners of the earth to come out. With your help we can occupy The Reality Studio and retake their universe of Fear Death and Monopoly." — William S. Burroughs, Nova Express - Sun, 2 Jul 2006 6:17am | ||
| Mi*coll* User Info... | ok, i do not see how that has anything to do with this thread (other than the pharmaceutical and religious elements in the clip). - Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:10pm | ||
| lonemonk User Info... | Burroughs briefly associated with the bunch, but the details are sketchy. He was definitely pissed off(and wrote about it) when the Scientologists were using his name as advertising of someone who is 'clear'. I don't think there was much of an association between the two, Burroughs almost never had the kind of money one needs to get involved with Scientology. As I understand it, this was during a period where Burroughs was VERY interested in orgone accumulators and other such devices. (See Wilhelm Reich: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich) - Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:05am | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | well done lonemonk and spot on. scientology was a philosophy which intruged may people at the time. as for burrough's finacial siuation he was grandson to william seward burroughs the owner and chair of the burroughs adding machine company. burroughs' grandfahers chums and fishing buddies were no less than j.p. morgan and thomas edison. - Thu, 6 Jul 2006 6:42pm Edited: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 6:44pm | ||
| lonemonk User Info... | Ya, he had uber-rich (grand)parents, but they very quickly started to diminish the money he was getting from trusts and other things. Not surprisingly a queer junky just doesn't fit into their world picture; Also cutting off the money supply is often a technique used to try and persuade someone to get off the opiates. They never totally dis-owned him, but I don't think he had easy access to wealth during his most productive periods. Burroughs was brilliant no doubt. He has to be the most sophisticated drug-fiend that ever lived. - Fri, 7 Jul 2006 8:28pm Edited: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 8:36pm | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | he was pretty taken care of. if you look closely and read his letters he was very upperwardly mobile. his trips to morocco, his buying property in mexico and not to forget how the beats attempted to feed off his funds for a while. you see in the world of wealth and old familys and money -- (homosexualty aside because the concern over sexuality is a bourjois thing) they rarely cut off the black sheep. they do encourage their exile. the money stops if they choose to stay in the country. the money resumes when they leave. which would explain his self exile. burroughs was asked about his wealth and he always refused to comment. as for him being a drug fiend. that was really hyped up. his most productive period was afer his junky years. it's just that most of the work people read are confused with present tense and not a narrative using past and collective experiences. - Fri, 7 Jul 2006 8:48pm Edited: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 8:55pm | ||
| lonemonk User Info... | You are correct. He had access to lots of money over his lifetime, but I don't believe he was totally flush for many mid-years. He never starved, but his letters also point out long periods of time where he's living so frugal to buy lots of drugs and boys and not much else besides. Don't mistake my comment on homosexuality, that view isn't mine, his family was very bourjois and probably did take exception to that aspect (when they finally found out about it) You make some knowledgeable points, but burroughs was an expert on many drugs, some of which he disliked immensely (cocaine). He only got that understanding from 30+ years of various self-experimentation, and of course, an on again off again opiate habit which lasted almost that length of time. Lets just say I'm using 'drug-fiend' very endearingly, but without a doubt he's shot more shit into his veins and up his nose than all of livevictoria participants will ever see collectively. And he was a hip motherfucker. I stand by it. - Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:48pm | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | w.s. burrogh's family was not bourjois. they came from the burroughs line of old family and money. yes they were nouveaux riche by european standards, however, all america was as it emerged and excelled in the industrial era. burroghs prepped at the finest schools. his being born into the old money and being well educated in these schools offers more than enough reason why homosexuality is was not an issue in any of his work nor did he have anything to do with the bourjois labels and gay rights movement when they crawled out to the suburbs and onto the magazine racks. he tended to brush ginsberg off toward the end when ginsberg attempted to jump start his career by flogging the dead issue of the gay rights movement and the dying gay sunshine press. homosexualtity was used as form of *out law culture*. it was something that was outside the world of "squares". it was a form of rebellion. bell hooks would later write a book of essays with this title. rough trade would write a song before that based on john rechy's novel of the same name. now, homosexualtiy is just gay and lived by squares. burroughs actually said that cocaine was the most "exhilarating" (his words) drug he had ever used. you'll find this statement in glossary to naked lunch. he did, as most people did and do, hate speed (speed kills). his son died early because his drug of choice was speed. he, burroughs' son, even wrote a book by the same name. w.s. burroughs' poison of choice was herion and then he turned to pot taylored ad rolled like cigarettes. once again i add that burroughs was less the junkie than people think. it was an image cultivated upon the rediscovery of his work at the end of the sixties and in the early seventies. it was an attempt, like scientology, to use his image and name to push a culture and the emerging drugged out or alcoholic artist marketing gimmick. most artists, these days, spend more time with the gimmick than they do in study, assembling the work, advancing the levels and producing. aldus huxley was trapped in this stereotype, as well, when his work, doors of perception, was rediscovered around the same time. you can thank the merry pranksers and dr tim "c.i.a." leary for that and head shops and groovey psychodelic books stores. they made drugs, like homosexuality would evenually become, a thing for the bourjois -- no longer a part of the world of rebels and outlaw culture. it was time when the laws of censorship had been retracted, somewhat, and allowed priviously band books to be published and reprinted. the naked lunch trials was the most famous for setting the laws aside. thus texts from the 19th century started to hit the shelves of shops -- like dequincey's "confessions of an opium eater"for one. people of advanced learning, who were also well read and cultured, started to use the *altered state* (which became the title of a novel and movie based on paddy chayefsky's work) as a tool of examination like the early romantics did with opium and eating raw meats before bedime in order to induce dream and nightmare as an inspiration for their new style of poetics and narraive. the main character in chayefsky's novel is doing exactly this sort of experiment -- from sensory deprivaion to eating pyote and then presenting scientific thesis to his fellow acedemics. as was chayefsky's characer, burroughs' work was complex and his ventures into the cut up method was not one that would lend itself easy to the drug addled fiend that people have taken him for. his third mind (with Brion Gysin) period was analyzing the alternative reality concept and random yet repetitive, or more reoccuring themes and language, in and on art and literature as it relates to and plays out in the subculture of america. his most famous work naked lunch was edited and assembled, as the story goes, by allen ginsberg. it was done so in three stages. this was the one he was working on while he started to slip into his overhyped junkie years. then, with kiki's help had overcome it in morocco. naked lunch reads bes with this construct as an understanding: the first half enters the high the second half hallucination and withdrawl (the nightmare) the last section clearity and straight narrative ending with a talk show spectical of dr benway. his most prolific time was the post naked lunch and junk period inwhich he ventured into film and sound art then in the 80's with the release of his "books for boys" trilogy cities of the red night place of dead roads and the western lands the creative process is complex, intellectual and methodical (and often dull to watch) and not one soley, if at all, based on randomness, therefore; not one of dramaic existence; of jollies, drug addled or drunken romanticised tragedy and miraculous production. - Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:15am Edited: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:46am | ||
| lonemonk User Info... | Ya, I read all the same shit, and I tried most of the substances I have wanted to. (Theres a few I'm still looking for a good source on) We're talking about the same thing dude, so give it up. Your research is ok, but "[Burroughs] has to be the most sophisticated drug-fiend that ever lived." is a quote I would have to be dumb to retract. He was very sophisticated and he writes better than you or I ever will and he wanted to discuss drugs and higher consciousness. I find that noble. You mention the WB books post-habit(maybe); they still attribute altered perception (often medicinally) as key ingredients in the attempt to shatter other forms of psychological and sociological dependency of much more dangerous kinds. As I said twice, perhaps 'drug-fiend' is too loaded for you. Alexander Shulgin John Lilly Timothy Leary (Sorta; I met him very briefly at Uvic) Kesey Humphrey Osmond Aldous Huxley Hunter Thompson See, many of my heroes you already mentioned. None of them where as suave as Mr. Burroughs. - Sat, 8 Jul 2006 1:55am | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | i'm afraid we don't read the same shit nor are we talking on the samething. this is the problem. by thinking on and stressing on the drug (s) and that as a creative process or the art itself -- you are missing the texte and contexte of the work. therefore; you are being conned or a least falling for it. the end result is that you miss the narrative and replace it with the alledged lifestyle-- this is american idol vs the accoustic space. timothy leary was a fool and confidence man. nowhere in the realm of narrative innovation and reason. he was a scientist (who worked for the government) and mixed many tricks and knew well the value of illusion. - Sat, 8 Jul 2006 2:16am Edited: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 2:17am | ||
| lonemonk User Info... | Ah I see. Well, I've never indicated it was a drug/creative interaction all by itself; a large portion of people mentioned in our thread so far got their original glimpse of abnormal thinking from the drug experience. (And they typically wrote about such an experience with great emphasis!) Artistic ability is a separate issue entirely. It's obvious that if these people didn't already have that ability we wouldn't be talking about them in the first fucking place. It all depends what what one does with the experience. Drugs without writing talent would be exactly like reading the rest of the Livevictoria message boards. Where do you get your ultimate inspiration from oh Lordpatch? Did you finally get a copy of Bobby Seale's CookBook? http://www.bobbyqueseale.com/ . . - Sat, 8 Jul 2006 2:56am Edited: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 4:33am | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | the term would not be "abnormal thinking" -- there is the logical and creative mind - the issue is to engage them via human will. this was one of the aspects scientology promised respects http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalk_20060617.mp3 - Sat, 8 Jul 2006 10:51am Edited: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 8:00pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | bmp - Wed, 19 Jul 2006 9:53pm | ||
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